On this episode of the Inside Talent podcast, Craig Fisher talks with Jerome Ternynck about how recruiters can reinvent themselves and be change agents when the world needs them more than ever. Jerome is the Founder and CEO of SmartRecruiters and Published Author of “Hiring Success: How Visionary CEOs compete for the best talent”, Lioncrest Publishing (February 11, 2020) – http://hiringsuccess.com/book
We discuss
*What Talent Acquisition leaders should be thinking about right now. Is now a good time to look at your tech stack?
*How recruiters can be change agents for themselves and society during the COVID-19 epidemic. RecruitersRecruitingRecruiters.com
*Hiring people and hiring great talent isn’t always the same.
*Most employers don’t measure hiring success properly.
*Quality metrics for hiring. Hiring velocity vs. time to fill.
*Now might be a great time to plan your ATS upgrade.
*Lessons from Jerome’s new book, Hiring Success.
*Jerome’s time leading paratrooper boot camp in the French Army, and much more.
Here is the full transcript:
Craig Fisher (00:05):
Hey, it’s Craig Fisher and Jerome Ternynck. Hope everybody’s doing well. Jerome, how are you?
Jerome Ternynck (00:10):
I’m doing great. Nice to a nice to be there with you or Craig today.
Craig Fisher (00:14):
Yeah. so we are live on your LinkedIn profile and I’m just sending an email out to everyone on LinkedIn to join us. And we will be recording this. So we’ll have the video for future watching. And this will also be on the inside talent podcast where you can find us@insidetalent.org and we’ll look forward to seeing you there. Jerome, how have you been? What’s going on? Tell me about what’s what’s happening in your world?
Jerome Ternynck (00:47):
You know, I think my world has changed like everybody’s world and I’m a recruiter at heart, so in those times I tend to lean in, right? It’s like saying to the team to a certain extent. Yeah, we sell software to recruiters and you know, our world is changed, but on the other side, millions, tens of millions of people have lost their jobs and we’re in the business of connecting people to jobs. Right? And so I think our, our, our job is actually become much more important and it’s, it’s a good time for everyone who’s, who’s a TA leader or recruiter or resource or technologies director is stick together and step up to say, look, how are we going to put the economy and people back to work when they sing opens up again.
Craig Fisher (01:33):
I’ve been having a lot of conversations with TA leaders and then with other thought leaders like yourself. Lars and I do this thing on Fridays on his 21st century HR podcast. And I told him recently about a conversation I had with Carrie noon from CVS and about, you know, how do you do employer branding in this time when you don’t want to be really raw about your culture. But if you are in hiring mode as CVS is when so many others aren’t, how do you kind of message that they’re actually in a partnership with Hilton and Marriott to take on. They’re furloughed workers for some warehouse and call center type jobs. And the agreement says that they can go back to their furlough jobs when the fellow’s over or they might find themselves a place to CDs. Yeah. So that’s kind of a cool example of the kind of collaboration that we’re seeing, but recruiters themselves need to be thinking, how can I reinvent myself here and be a change agent, you know, to help this cause and to help themselves when a lot of recruiters are also sort of sitting on the bench right now.
Jerome Ternynck (02:44):
Yeah. Well we, we actually had a good example of that in the Netherlands where we we partnered with over a hundred recruiters for an initiative called recruiters for good, eh. Dot NL and where they’re inviting people who’ve been laid off and to actually sign up into a, into a CRM in fact. And then on the other side, recruiters can coach them, help them, help them identify jobs and, and coach them. And that’s actually been a really popular initiative. We’ve done a similar thing in, in Lebanon for jobs, jobs for Lebanon, jobs for Australia was another one. And we’re coming up this week actually. There’s a big industry-wide initiative coming out for, to help recruiters, so recruiters, recruiting recruiters. So I’m seeing a lot of those like joint efforts to pull talent and to help each other. And the example you gave at CVS is is something that I would encourage other companies to do. We’ve repackaged our CRM, so the candidate relationship management part of the SmartRecruiters platform as a redeployment platform. And so now inside of seven days, we’re able to deliver a turnkey ready primary platform to anybody who wants to take impacted talent and help them find jobs either internally or with partner companies like you outside. And we’ve done this now a numerous number of times and it’s actually really helping and it’s like switch, you know, switch a quick, a quick switch and seven days go day,
Craig Fisher (04:19):
Which is great. You know, it’s funny, I, we were able to be creative in times like this, but most employers you know, when they’re in business as usual mode, don’t even know who they have available in their own organization because they don’t have the, the kind of data to understand, you know, what is the updated profile, the people I hired seven years ago and what are they doing right now? And you know, how could, how could I move people around? So you know, I think there’s probably a lot of things like that that TA leaders should be thinking about right now. What are some other things that they could be doing, you know, during this sort of downtime?
Jerome Ternynck (05:02):
Yeah, I think TA leaders here to your point, they have a, a real responsibility to step up in redeployment and internal mobility and in, in, it varies by organization, but sometimes TA is more like, Hey, you guys are the external recruitment guys and internal year it happens around the, around the coffee machine. Now TA leaders need to step up and to use their technology, their know how their processes, their teams to say we got to protect our employees as best we can. So for sure if we have some open jobs, we should make sure that we’re not going to hire anybody outside less. You know, we have checked in Trinity first. So that’s one big thing and we’re seeing a lot of this happen. So partner with the CHR or and the CFO to minimize the impact or fellows and redeployments and eventually layoffs that may be coming.
Jerome Ternynck (05:53):
And the second thing that I think you do is how do you use this time if you’re in a hiring freeze or slow hiring mode, how do you use this time to upgrade your technology, your processes, and to upscale your teams? And in particular, how do you use this time to replace an upgrade your applicant tracking system? We see a lot of companies that actually have been running on outdated ATSs and they know it and they’re like, yeah, I just, I just don’t have the time to change it. Right. Well now you might actually just have the tech and replacing your ATS is like, it’s like replacing the engine of the car, right a lot easier when the car is. So use this time and move to the CFO and say, Hey, we got this ATS with three other bolt-on system, I want to replace it.
Jerome Ternynck (06:41):
You in a modern one. I’m going to save costs by increasing my conversion on candidates. So my sourcing and advertising costs will go down. We’re going to increase collaboration with hiring managers, so we’re going to make better decision than before and my team’s going to be more productive. So I reckon we probably need two thirds of the team we had when we started this year. It was going to like great, good idea. Right? And they might actually say, good, you told me because otherwise I didn’t know what you were going to do in the next few months. Right.
Craig Fisher (07:06):
So I love your car analogy. That’s great. You don’t want to install a new engine when it’s time to use the car again. If your car needs some maintenance, do it now. And so if your recruiting engine might need a little jumpstart because of you know, some not so great processes or an ATS that you haven’t been real successful or happy with, now’s a great time to do it.
Jerome Ternynck (07:29):
Yeah, indeed. Indeed. And then for your teams as well, how do you actually keep your teams on smaller scale, on smaller projects engaged, happy and productive? I don’t know. Is your referral program optimal? Probably not. Okay. So Hey, someone in the team on actually take a look at the referral program. Look at what’s best practice, come back with a recommendation. We’re going to use this time to enhance our referral program or we’re going to look at all our job advertising and what channels and where and how and optimize that. Or you know what? We always have these interview scorecards. They are kind of outdated. They don’t really help us make good decision. All right, right. We’re going to tackle how do we actually do interview scorecard? And the list goes on and on and on of things that you could be doing that you know, you should be doing. Like, I don’t know, measure your net hiring score. Have we ever measured our net her? It’s called do we know if we’re hungry people well maybe now would be a good time to do that. We were working with a customer the other day on transitioning from measuring time to field to measuring hiring velocity. Simple change. But the hiring velocity gives you a better, a better sense of how hiring is growing. And it’s exactly the kind of project you never do if you are busy feeling right. That’s right. Yeah.
Craig Fisher (08:48):
Yeah. If you had more time you could do it. And I think that’s a good shift to make. It’s a better statistic to track. I don’t think time to fill is very valid or equal across the organization. Hiring managers are all different and if you can check on how they’re doing individually and compare them to each other, boy it gets to be a competition and they straighten up quick.
Jerome Ternynck (09:10):
Oh absolutely. And you know, it’s, this is a very interesting interesting balance actually because the, as you said, time to feel, it’s like, okay, my time to fuel is 43 days. Why do I care? Like start earlier, right? You know, it’s like it doesn’t, doesn’t mean anything. The only thing it means is that this along with cost per hire is like faster and cheaper, faster and cheaper. Don’t add value. Please. I just need you to be fast, which is the opposite of what recruiting should be. So when you change that and you show up, it’s like hiring velocity, the percentage of jobs that are filled on time. Now you say, okay, my hiring velocity is 85% which means as a CEO, I know that if I decide to invade Belgium, the soldiers are going to be there on the day of the invasion. Right?
Jerome Ternynck (09:50):
And it’s, yeah, sorry, I’m from the North of France, but you see what I mean? Right. Hiring velocity is business velocity for CEOs, and that metric is really an interesting one to introduce and I would argue that in a business today, I actually talk about this a lot, but in the business today, you give hiring velocity as your metric to the manager manager. It’s your job to get your jobs filled on time. You’re going to hire 25 engineers next quarter, how many did you hire? That’s your job. And you give the net hiring score, which is the quality control to the recruiter. So the recruiter is not incentivized to place people fast. The recruiter is incentivized to make sure we hire the right people. Right. And the moment you actually have that interaction, the recruiter is not incentivized to close jobs by like whoever. We can find that the manager is going to accept it. On the other hand, they are incentivized to raise the bar. Now suddenly your recruiter is incentivized to find good candidates to be a good person to the manager. And the manager is the one that’s like, okay, I need my head company. Right.
Craig Fisher (10:56):
The shift from just hiring people to hiring great talent. Yeah. And you talk about that a lot in your book. Jerome’s got a new book hiring success and it’s a great guy. There it is. Yeah. and he tells a lot of really good analogies and stories in the book. And one of the stories that you tell is about exactly that. You’re talking to a, a CEO of a bank and asked him if he’s, you know, hiring great people. And his response was typical,
Jerome Ternynck (11:31):
Right? Yeah, I think so. Yeah. I just like, yeah, I think I do. And then I actually, I, I poked at him and I said, well, wait, do you hire the people that Goldman Sachs didn’t want? And right there he, he really pulls any, you know, you could see that actually there the fact that talent is a competition, that who you hire defines who you are. It defines your ability to compete, defines your ability to innovate, to sell, to service. If as actually as your reader, who you are, defines you as a reader. And the the, the fact is that CEOs actually understand, they understand that that’s why they put hiring top talent as one of their top priorities consistently time and time again. But then what do they do against that? They pass it to HR to TA, and then they go time to fuel, cost per hire, faster, cheaper.
Jerome Ternynck (12:27):
There’s a gap here. There’s a misalignment, right? Between the expectation and the reality. And frankly there’s a misalignment businesswise because we all know that great talents is three to five X more productive than not great talents. They don’t mean a good person versus a bad person. A human being that’s in the right job. You can be talented. It’s important to to know that. So I have a great match of people and a great fit, which is actually what the net hiring score measures. On a scale of one to 10, how much of a fit is this job for you? On a scale of one to 10 how much of a fit is this new person, this new hire for you, and then you do an NPS score nine and 10 minus one to five and you end up with a positive or negative score that tells you, are you hiring more great feeds than four feet. And the results are actually surprising in many organizations.
Craig Fisher (13:16):
I’m sure it is. Because what many organizations do currently is NPS score alone
Jerome Ternynck (13:21):
Or nothing, right? Yeah. They’re not measuring very well most of the time. No, no. I think quality of hire is a, is a aspiration or metric at best. You measure it at the end of the first year based on the performance review and the age of your grandmother. It doesn’t really, doesn’t really make its way back into hiring practices in most Oregon,
Craig Fisher (13:43):
You know? So it’s funny you also talk in your book about your experience training paratroopers. So you were a leader in the, in the French army for awhile and that’s a little bit of the same thing. You started developing some of these measurements of who’s going to make a good soldier for this particular type of skill and and job talk a little bit about that. And then I think we’ve got a question from the audience that we’ll address.
Jerome Ternynck (14:10):
Yeah, yeah, I see. You know, in the, in the army. So I was a Lieutenant in the paratroops and I was in charge of the bootcamp. So literally I would see a bus coming with 40 kids, 18 year old, long hair, first day in the army, looking miserable, right? And over 60 days, we had to turn them into well-behaved soldiers, ready to do whatever they needed and maybe eventually to give ultimate sacrifice for their life. It’s really interesting to see the interaction in this group. And I learned a few, I know a lot of things that during the time, but one thing that stayed with me is your personal limits. Your boundaries are a lot further than what you’ve seen. And so the power of the group here in achieving things that seem impossible is is, is real. So I believe in us more and I believe in pushing your boundaries would be my two main two main learnings from those times.
Craig Fisher (15:08):
So some of the audience members are, are saying that we’ve got some bad trends in hiring. This actually speaks right to that. Because most companies Steven commented that most companies can’t even tell you what a great hire is. And I think most companies, like you were just saying don’t have a way to measure what a great hire is and they don’t push their people in order to understand whether that person could be the great hire that they need to be.
Jerome Ternynck (15:41):
Yeah. Yeah. And I think that really that really needs to change, right? Because as recruiters, we are paid to help a business hire amazing talent on demand. There’s a definition of hiring success, right? Hire amazing talent on demand, right? And if we don’t measure amazing talent, great talent, how successful those people are, then we don’t measure the outcome. If we don’t measure what we deliver, then we only measured by how we deliver it, which is faster and cheaper. Cost per hire tend to fail. So we’ve got to change that. The net hiring score is, the survey talked about 90 days into a higher, on a scale of one to 10, how much of a fit are you for this job? How much of a fit is this new hire? We ask both the manager and the candidate or the new hire. And it’s a really interesting one.
Jerome Ternynck (16:26):
It’s so simple, it’s you know, it’s just a single measure, but it actually is a very, very good point. Or the first time we run this survey was for a very large tech company here in Silicon Valley, over 10,000 employees and we run the survey and in 52% of cases, either the manager or the rep or the candidate said, no, not great. Right now you bring this to the CEO and you say like, sir, 52% of your hires are like, this wasn’t the best decision I made right on either side and now you can actually start to picture the downstream impact of that. Right? And driving the business towards higher outcomes is a very easy, very clear measure. Once you are equipped with your hiring success metrics are in Willow CTA, 80% of our jobs are filled on time. Nice. Your net hiring score, positive 10 and your hiring budget not as a cost per hire, but as a percentage of higher salary.
Jerome Ternynck (17:31):
So 5% of our new hire salary, we invest in recruiting. Now you can come to the CEO and say, okay boss, if you give me a bit more budget, and actually I think I could take our hiring velocity to 85%, which would make the business more agile and we could push up on it hiring score five points. Right now we’re having a business conversation. That’s right, cause before, right? How do you go to a meeting and say, next year I think we should double our cost per hire, right? Nobody ever did that. Well, why not? Right? You invest in recruiting to get great talent, just like you invest in marketing to get customers. It’s the same
Craig Fisher (18:05):
If you paid somebody a little more and they were a better fit for the job. You can sometimes even fill two roles with one person, right? Because there are people that have that kind of capacity if they’re really good for that skillset area. The other thing is we got a comment from the audience about generational inefficiencies right in the, in the workplace. And that it’s, it’s kind of a given that we’re going to pay older workers a higher salary, but sometimes younger workers are at a maturity level for the type of role that they might themselves deserve a bit of a higher salary. And conversely, there’s a lot of older workers who have done a big job, a C level job and now want to just do some good work. Right. And they do are sort of discriminated against as to high level. And they take it, they take a lower salary and they could be really, really good. So I think these are some things we should start looking at more.
Jerome Ternynck (19:04):
Yeah, I agree. And the heart of that is to have a very strict selection process. And I think we are, we allow our selection criteria to be way to lose weight, to lose in who evaluates candidates. You know, the hiring manager has a conversation and then tells you, okay, I’ll hire him. Okay. Why, how, how does it compare? Right. And and weight to lose in criteria because most people are, you know, the job interview school told me about yourself, which is actually not a structured interview. And so in the book I talk a lot about this, that you need one, a hiring team and how you build your team in having peers in having diversity in the team actually is really important. And two, you need structured a structured scorecard that focuses on the most achieves, not on the must haves, must be able to write great Java code versus must have a degree from Stanford and five years of Java experience.
Jerome Ternynck (20:11):
I don’t care about that. Especially in a world where most skills are acquired, where the world moves fast, where you can actually go and certify yourself on super advanced technologies online at like, Ooh, this will be considered not as clear as it was before. And therefore focusing on the most to achieve. Almost like you run a performance review of that person before you hire them. It’s like, okay, in one year you’ll have your performance review. What are you going to grade them on? How much have they sold? And have they done this? Have they done that? Okay, great. Well why is that not your interview scorecard? And then you evaluate people at end. If we did that, I think we’d end up with a lot more young people being given the opportunity because they actually are able to deliver the job. And there are lots of older generation people still being given the opportunity because actually they have everything it takes to do the good job. That’s right.
Craig Fisher (21:03):
Yeah. And I think, I think if we do come together like that more right from the top and from the bottom, we’re going to be in a better place in the long run and we’re going to be much more efficient. Do you think that we’re going to get to the point where we’re saying, and I know some companies already are, show me the kid who finishes fortnight the fastest. Each time a new season comes out, right. Show me the kid who acquires the most you know, golden Minecraft and, and is able to, you know network their way through winning a game. I, I, I can please make that happen.
Jerome Ternynck (21:40):
Imagine if you were tasked to months ago with hiring one developer whose job would be to build the highest traffic website for Corona statistics way would you take, would you pick the 16 year old kid who did that? The world [inaudible] which is by far the highest traffic globally of all websites about coroner was done at home by a 16 year old kid. Do you think he would have gone through your job interview? He should have because he did it without help on his own. And so I think the world of work is changing and if you can focus your energy on most stitches as opposed to how many years of experience do you have a, we’re in actually much better shape.
Craig Fisher (22:29):
Yeah. That’s my kind of programmer content developer SEO expert. That’s, that’s, that’s, I hired that guy in a minute. You know who he is cause I may be calling him.
Jerome Ternynck (22:40):
Actually I don’t, I’m going to blank on his name. But I watched, I watched a TV show on him cause he actually now he became famous. Of course, you type Google and you say Kobe duck date, you have the Google plugin. And then right below world donator is their number one result on Google across across the world. Any and he actually so yeah, [inaudible] his home and his mom talks as she’s proud of him and the kids are here. It was just trying to organize things in a bit better way. Thank you.
Craig Fisher (23:08):
I love it. And that’s a great use of time. I mean, so kids right now, my, I’ve got three boys who, you know, don’t have a school to go to. They’re basically shut in unless they go out to exercise. And they’re online playing their games most of the time when they’re not doing the modicum amount of homework that they’re being assigned for, you know, remote schooling. And so I, I feel like we should in the future as parents and as employers of parents have some things ready to help kids be more productive, creative things that they could be doing to actually, you know, do the type of thing we were just talking about where they’re doing something that’s helping society, they’re building something that can help build their future that sort of thing. And I, I’m constantly working on that with my kids to, I give them these crazy assignments and I need to personally be doing more of that cause I hear them upstairs screaming, you know, playing their games with their friends. Yes,
Jerome Ternynck (24:09):
Yes. Yeah. And I’m sure you see the same thing at home. I do, I do. And you know, what strikes me is their level of comfort and positivity that comes out of the younger generation in learning new stuff and doing new things. I am, I’m amazed and I have two, two daughters. One is in college, the other one is here with me. And if we are going to do something, and I’m like, have you done this before? And I’m like, and she’s like, no, like, okay, how are you going to do it? And she looks at me like I’m an idiot. Then she goes, I don’t know, I’ll just look online and figure out how it’s done within five minutes. She has like seven different ways to bake this cake or to do this or to install days. And she literally like, and you’re like, Oh yeah, this self-education is I think a critical thing that the newer generation has that this crisis is forcing us to have more and more. And we’re seeing that. Like one of the things we did when the, when the shelter in place to her is we said, Oh, we’re going to make the SmartRecruiters administration course. So it’s like a two day paid course that, you know, the company has like one or two admin, they are the expert and they manage the platform. We said we’re going to do these online free and they are instructor led. You get your certificate at the end. Like it’s, it’s a real new skill that you develop.
Jerome Ternynck (25:35):
It’s like we literally were like hundreds of people have been signing up every time because these are student structure. So it’s 50 people max. You can ask questions that show. It’s a real course. And so we, we, every time we opened a new debt, you, the buckets instantly fall. So then we went to, okay, let’s cry, let’s, let’s put on more content. And we created the having success masterclass. Same thing with like, literally we had the first iteration of the hiring success masterclass with over a thousand people sign up. And then it’s a six plus course, six, 10, two hours, and at the end you actually get certified as a hiring success expert. You understand the methodology, you understand how to drive change in recruiting. Perfect. Right? If you’re a recruiter, you do not, you, you are at home. Either you’ve, you’re, you’ve been transitioned out or you are in a hiring freeze or you’re followed, then use this time to actually upskill yourself.
Craig Fisher (26:27):
Yeah, I think that’s great. I, so I’ve been through the hiring success while the smart recruiters admin course because when I implemented smart recruiters at allegiance global solutions a couple of years ago and I configured our career site and did all the, you know, all the backend stuff.
Craig Fisher (26:44):
And what I love about it is it’s remarkably easy, but that admin course is very helpful. So I love that you’re giving this away. I love that you’re doing the hierarchs success master masterclass. It’s great. One of the things that, a comment from the audience was that we need to be better at screening people in and not out. And I think that the person who is good at self-education as we’re just talking about is somebody that I want on my team, right? If they can go figure stuff out and we should be able to screen better for people that can do that. And I know some of the assessments are okay at it, but I think a lot of the sort of you know, day in the life of the job type of screening is also really good. What are your ideas there?
Jerome Ternynck (27:32):
I think you screen people in through multiple methods. But one of things I’ve seen work well is behave like a marketer. And what I mean by this is how, how do marketers operate? You give them a market and a product. Great. So they have something to sell a job and they have a market which is the segment of talent [inaudible]. So the first thing they will do is they start by segmenting their market and then understanding how does this market react and what are my best channels to reach this market? This is like marketing or something. We don’t apply too much in, in recruiting, once you’ve segmented your talents, you can actually apply the right resources. For example, we had the case of somebody was hiring data scientists, getting inundated with resumes that were not relevant advertising, picking up the phone on LinkedIn to try and find each person this wasn’t scalable.
Jerome Ternynck (28:30):
And then they suddenly said, okay, let me put a, create a webpage and have a white paper like a marketer. We do have a white paper with a lead capture form and the white paper was a data science white paper that they actually their chief scientists that return. Next thing you know that sounds a download on the white paper. Like I ask you who downloads the white paper about data science, right? Or data scientist, right? And from this 800,000 people there, the couple of questions like what technologies you’d like in data science. They ended up was 800 qualified candidates run one maybe now two webinars. Then asked the questions you guys want to work for me or for us? And within three weeks of starting this, there are 200 qualified applicants or qualified candidates that were ready to engage with their recruiters. Right? So that one campaign outperformed the work of probably 10 sourcers and definitely have a job advertising.
Jerome Ternynck (29:21):
So I hundred percent agree we have to screen people in not out. And I would ask the question, why would you advertise your job right now to anybody? Why not advertise your job only to people who are quantified, interested. Interesting. How so? How do you prequalify? Should everybody be able to see any job and apply and be disappointed? Is it really, does it help people to actually spend their time filling in application forms and be rejected? No. On the contrary, if you were able to better capture people’s interests and then say, Oh, you are in a marketing career, you’ve done this, you’ve used it up here is this week we opened two new jobs that maybe you could be interested in. Like we need to be qualifying people before we allow them to apply. There’ll be four. We encourage them to apply. You can, you obviously need to let people apply if they want to, but let’s say for me, the reduction of in, in inbound candidates is going to be one of the major work for TA leaders in the coming your years. As you know, 500 resumes, 10 of them get through prescreen, 490, we forget to answer. This is really not the way to go.
Craig Fisher (30:37):
Yep. And as you know, I lead a team that does a recruitment marketing and I’m very focused on you know, that sort of targeted approach. And not enough people understand it from my experience, unfortunately. Right. and, and you’re exactly right. We make it too easy for people to apply. It’s too easy to just click, click, click, click, click. And so the reason we have to have the sophisticated software to screen out all the applicants that aren’t a fit is because we are not. That’s right. We’re not, we’re not good enough just going into,
Jerome Ternynck (31:11):
Right. And when you, and when you say that to people, they often say great. That’s why I’m going to put friction in my apply process to have a lot of questions. Yeah. The form is that screens out the good candidates, right? Cause they don’t have time for your questions. So you need to be a lot smarter at how you prequalify people before you actually show them jobs.
Craig Fisher (31:30):
That makes really good sense. So Jerome, you are fascinating as always. When do you think we are going to be able to drink a beer together in person?
Jerome Ternynck (31:45):
I think we could definitely drink a beer over zoom. And this may or may have different tastes, but it might be the taste of the future. I think it’s going to take some time. It’s going to take some time and it’s going to take time. For before the economy, Reid reignite itself, I say it’s going to take a lot of time and therefore it’s, it’s a good time to not sit back, wait and be sorry. It’s the time to actually invest in yourself, to invest in your organization, to invest in your team. And if you are a recruiter, millions, tens of millions of people are counting on you right now, right? So if you’re not busy because you are at home and you have no wrecks to feel, then pick a few friends who have lost their jobs and help them build a good resume.
Jerome Ternynck (32:34):
Run a mock interview with your cousin, with a really in a bad place. Like start mentoring people. Help them. This is what you do for a living. You’re good at it. Right? So do that. Oh, and if I may say, when you, when we finish this interview, please, anybody listening, go to your ATS and earn post the jobs that you’re not hiring for, right. Pipelining is great, but you pipeline showdown pool. If you are interested, let us know. We won’t contact you in the future. You do not pipeline with a fake job that you are not hiring for. This is the right thing to do. The hardest thing for people right now is to figure out is this job real or is this not real? And I see a lot of recruiters out there like, Oh, I’m just pipelining. No, no, no, no, no. This is called fake advertising. It’s a bad idea. You owe it to yourself, you owe it to your employer brand and you owe it to the candidate. So on, post your jobs, inform the candidates and then use your CRM to deploy downpour. It’s a perfect time to, to start pipelining talent. You should definitely do that, but not true jobs. Okay.
Craig Fisher (33:37):
And take some of that money you save on recruitment, advertising and keep some of the people that you would otherwise have to furlough.
Jerome Ternynck (33:45):
Yeah, indeed.
Craig Fisher (33:46):
That’s a good savings there. Yeah. okay, so I want to make a couple of notes. I know that everyone should be going to buy their copy of hiring success. You can find it on Amazon among other places. Yup. I know that smart recruiters has some resources posted for recruiters and employers on their website, as does allegiance. Global solutions has a big covert 19 database of resources for starting people back to work and among other things. So check that out. Allegiance, global solutions.com. Jerome you know, I’m used to seeing you three or four times a year in person and it’s just great seeing your face here. So thanks for being on with me today.
Jerome Ternynck (34:29):
Yeah. Thank you for having me, Craig. Really nice. Yeah. And thanks for letting us use your stream. Yes. And my backyard.
Craig Fisher (34:36):
And your back yard. That’s right. Okay. Thanks everybody. Great seeing you.
Jerome Ternynck (34:41):
Thank you.
